<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: My Company ESPP Has Become My New Property Tax Escrow</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ptmoney.com/2008/05/30/my-company-espp-has-become-my-new-property-tax-escrow/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ptmoney.com/2008/05/30/my-company-espp-has-become-my-new-property-tax-escrow/</link>
	<description>Real Personal Finance for a Life Without Limits!</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 11:15:46 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: It Was Hot on the Farm, and Weekend Blog Roundup - Consumerism Commentary: A Personal Finance Blog</title>
		<link>http://ptmoney.com/2008/05/30/my-company-espp-has-become-my-new-property-tax-escrow/comment-page-1/#comment-1648</link>
		<dc:creator>It Was Hot on the Farm, and Weekend Blog Roundup - Consumerism Commentary: A Personal Finance Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 04:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ptmoney.com/?p=505#comment-1648</guid>
		<description>[...] My Company ESPP Has Become My New Property Tax Escrow. PT Money has an interesting point of view regarding his investment in employee stock purchase plans. He sees the automated deduction and the immediate minimum 15% return (minus taxes)&#8212;like that offered with my company&#8217;s ESPP&#8212;as a good holding account for his property tax funds. Even those earning minimum wage (hee-yah) could benefit from investing a portion of their income. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="color: #000000">
<p>[...] My Company ESPP Has Become My New Property Tax Escrow. PT Money has an interesting point of view regarding his investment in employee stock purchase plans. He sees the automated deduction and the immediate minimum 15% return (minus taxes)&#8212;like that offered with my company&#8217;s ESPP&#8212;as a good holding account for his property tax funds. Even those earning minimum wage (hee-yah) could benefit from investing a portion of their income. [...]</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Roundup: ESPPs, Self-employment, and the Grocery Game &#124; Pregnancy Blog</title>
		<link>http://ptmoney.com/2008/05/30/my-company-espp-has-become-my-new-property-tax-escrow/comment-page-1/#comment-1605</link>
		<dc:creator>Roundup: ESPPs, Self-employment, and the Grocery Game &#124; Pregnancy Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 12:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ptmoney.com/?p=505#comment-1605</guid>
		<description>[...] My Company ESPP Has Become My New Property Tax Escrow at Prime Time Money - I don&#8217;t have the option of an ESPP, but if you do, you should definitely read PT&#8217;s post explaining why it&#8217;s such a good deal. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="color: #000000">
<p>[...] My Company ESPP Has Become My New Property Tax Escrow at Prime Time Money &#8211; I don&#8217;t have the option of an ESPP, but if you do, you should definitely read PT&#8217;s post explaining why it&#8217;s such a good deal. [...]</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter Answers</title>
		<link>http://ptmoney.com/2008/05/30/my-company-espp-has-become-my-new-property-tax-escrow/comment-page-1/#comment-1597</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Answers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ptmoney.com/?p=505#comment-1597</guid>
		<description>@PT - Sorry, I was using the royal &quot;you&quot; there, I wasn&#039;t calling YOU an idiot. :-)  In terms of when to short you should short as soon as you know exactly how many shares you will be buying - depending on how your firm calculates that, you probably won&#039;t know this until after close of business on the last day of the period.  However, if you wait until after the close you won&#039;t be able to put in your short sell order until the next business day, and osmething could go wrong effecting your stocks opening the next trading day, so what I do is wait until the last few minutes of the last trading day in the period and I make my calculation at that time, initiating the short sell right before market closes on the last business day.  In my plan we get the lesser of 85% of closing price at start of period or 85% of closing price at end of period.  When the stock is higher and you know you are buying at the price at the beginning of the period it is very easy to know with 100% accuracy what your buy price will be, and you know how much you contributed so of course it is an easy calculation.  Depending on how much your stock price moves in a given day it is possible it is harder to get it exactly right if your buy price will be the price on that last day of the period, but even then you should be able to nail it and if you do miss by a share or two no big deal.

@good money blog - if you use the shorting method I have described there is no risk in losing money, you will have locked in the 15% (minimum) gain - the only risk is if the share price RISES and then you will lose out on that gain - but then you are just getting greedy!  It makes no difference how volitile the stock is.  Imagine you work for an Enron like company and on the last day of the period your company shares are priced at $60/share and you had invested $6,000 in your ESPP for that period. You know your company will be buying 100 shares for you so you short 100 shares and recieve $6,000 in cash from your broker.  Then let&#039;s say something terrible happens that night and your company shares go down to $1.  Doesnt matter to you (other than you may no longer have a job!) because you already locked in your gain - you cover your short sale with the shares you get a few days later from your company and you get to keep the $6,000 cash. 

Obviouslly this example is grossly oversimplified, there are little things like margin interest expense, transaction charges, etc, but in general this simple approach means ZERO risk to ESPP:

Right before close of last day of period determine how many shares company will be buying on your behalf and then short that amount of shares.  Once shares hit your brokerage, use those shares to cover your short position.  Enjoy your stress-free, locked in profit. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@PT &#8211; Sorry, I was using the royal &#8220;you&#8221; there, I wasn&#8217;t calling YOU an idiot. <img src='http://ptmoney.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />   In terms of when to short you should short as soon as you know exactly how many shares you will be buying &#8211; depending on how your firm calculates that, you probably won&#8217;t know this until after close of business on the last day of the period.  However, if you wait until after the close you won&#8217;t be able to put in your short sell order until the next business day, and osmething could go wrong effecting your stocks opening the next trading day, so what I do is wait until the last few minutes of the last trading day in the period and I make my calculation at that time, initiating the short sell right before market closes on the last business day.  In my plan we get the lesser of 85% of closing price at start of period or 85% of closing price at end of period.  When the stock is higher and you know you are buying at the price at the beginning of the period it is very easy to know with 100% accuracy what your buy price will be, and you know how much you contributed so of course it is an easy calculation.  Depending on how much your stock price moves in a given day it is possible it is harder to get it exactly right if your buy price will be the price on that last day of the period, but even then you should be able to nail it and if you do miss by a share or two no big deal.</p>
<p>@good money blog &#8211; if you use the shorting method I have described there is no risk in losing money, you will have locked in the 15% (minimum) gain &#8211; the only risk is if the share price RISES and then you will lose out on that gain &#8211; but then you are just getting greedy!  It makes no difference how volitile the stock is.  Imagine you work for an Enron like company and on the last day of the period your company shares are priced at $60/share and you had invested $6,000 in your ESPP for that period. You know your company will be buying 100 shares for you so you short 100 shares and recieve $6,000 in cash from your broker.  Then let&#8217;s say something terrible happens that night and your company shares go down to $1.  Doesnt matter to you (other than you may no longer have a job!) because you already locked in your gain &#8211; you cover your short sale with the shares you get a few days later from your company and you get to keep the $6,000 cash. </p>
<p>Obviouslly this example is grossly oversimplified, there are little things like margin interest expense, transaction charges, etc, but in general this simple approach means ZERO risk to ESPP:</p>
<p>Right before close of last day of period determine how many shares company will be buying on your behalf and then short that amount of shares.  Once shares hit your brokerage, use those shares to cover your short position.  Enjoy your stress-free, locked in profit. <img src='http://ptmoney.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Good Money Blog</title>
		<link>http://ptmoney.com/2008/05/30/my-company-espp-has-become-my-new-property-tax-escrow/comment-page-1/#comment-1580</link>
		<dc:creator>Good Money Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 02:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ptmoney.com/?p=505#comment-1580</guid>
		<description>That only works well for company stocks that are not volatile, don&#039;t you think? For a tech stock in a bear market, that almost guaranteed 15% could evaporate in a couple days.

Anyway, I did make some easy gain when my company used to have the ESPP program. At the time, I even thought about hedging the position (before it could be sold) by shorting it. I was told employees weren&#039;t allowed to short company stocks but I did think about asking my siblings to help me out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That only works well for company stocks that are not volatile, don&#8217;t you think? For a tech stock in a bear market, that almost guaranteed 15% could evaporate in a couple days.</p>
<p>Anyway, I did make some easy gain when my company used to have the ESPP program. At the time, I even thought about hedging the position (before it could be sold) by shorting it. I was told employees weren&#8217;t allowed to short company stocks but I did think about asking my siblings to help me out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: PT</title>
		<link>http://ptmoney.com/2008/05/30/my-company-espp-has-become-my-new-property-tax-escrow/comment-page-1/#comment-1579</link>
		<dc:creator>PT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 01:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ptmoney.com/?p=505#comment-1579</guid>
		<description>@Peter - Thanks for your comment.  I agree, do everything you can to make it happen.  We set up for 10% and shouldn&#039;t have a problem making that.

Good point about the lag time between purchase and sale.  I wonder how close to the purchase date I&#039;ll be comfortable doing the short sale?

Thanks for the vote of confidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Peter &#8211; Thanks for your comment.  I agree, do everything you can to make it happen.  We set up for 10% and shouldn&#8217;t have a problem making that.</p>
<p>Good point about the lag time between purchase and sale.  I wonder how close to the purchase date I&#8217;ll be comfortable doing the short sale?</p>
<p>Thanks for the vote of confidence.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter Answers</title>
		<link>http://ptmoney.com/2008/05/30/my-company-espp-has-become-my-new-property-tax-escrow/comment-page-1/#comment-1578</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Answers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 01:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ptmoney.com/?p=505#comment-1578</guid>
		<description>If you are an employee who is allowed to sell your shares right away and your are not taking out the max on your ESPP then you are an idiot.  If you think you cant afford to take 15% out of your paycheck then beg, borrow or steal the money you need to cover the expense, put it in a savings accoutn and pay yourself out of it every paycheck whatever you took out for ESPP.

One thing to remember is that there can be some risk - at the end of the period when your company buys your shares with your money it will be at least a few days before they hit your broker.  That period of time where your shares have been bought but you cant sell them defines your risk window.  You can move your risk to zero by shorting your shares once you determine how many will be bought, and then using the ESPP shares to cover once they hit your brokerage.  In this way you really do have ZERO risk.

In public your CFO will say not to do this because he is paid to have you buy and hold, but in private they will ackowledge it is smart money management.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you are an employee who is allowed to sell your shares right away and your are not taking out the max on your ESPP then you are an idiot.  If you think you cant afford to take 15% out of your paycheck then beg, borrow or steal the money you need to cover the expense, put it in a savings accoutn and pay yourself out of it every paycheck whatever you took out for ESPP.</p>
<p>One thing to remember is that there can be some risk &#8211; at the end of the period when your company buys your shares with your money it will be at least a few days before they hit your broker.  That period of time where your shares have been bought but you cant sell them defines your risk window.  You can move your risk to zero by shorting your shares once you determine how many will be bought, and then using the ESPP shares to cover once they hit your brokerage.  In this way you really do have ZERO risk.</p>
<p>In public your CFO will say not to do this because he is paid to have you buy and hold, but in private they will ackowledge it is smart money management.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
